GECK:Community Portal/Organization


< GECK:Community Portal
Revision as of 01:19, 17 December 2008 by Quetzilla (Talk | contribs) (Tidbits: reference vs guide material?)

Main Page Organization

So you can change the categories links by editing Template:Categories. I added some of the new pages we've been making up to the list, as well as FOSE. I compiled Mod Tools/Tips and Tricks/Solutions under 'Further Reading', but I didn't actually make a Further Reading Category page as that seemed a bit much. Let's try to keep this thing updated as important new pages get put up so they can be easily accessed from the main page and not lost in the muck
--Quetzilla 20:51, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

I'll leave it unprotected for now, but that page is going to be protected eventually. We don't want anyone vandalizing the front page. We'll add a Recent Changes box on the front page like the CS Wiki to list new articles.
--Qazaaq 18:59, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


There are currently 2 settings pages: the page and the category. The category is much smaller, and seems to be incomplete. Should we delete it (in accordance with Categories below)? One note if we do - there are a few pages there that aren't mentioned on the Settings page (i.e., iSandboxBreakfastMin).

Minor things - do we want the format from the Oblivion wiki (i.e., iSandboxBreakfastMin) or not (i.e., FMinesDelayMin? Should we standardize with the first letter uncapped or uapped?
--Haama 07:08, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd like the format of the CS Wiki, but with different colors. How about a template? That would enforce standards and gives us some time to experiment and discuss the colors and organization. I'll make one right now.
--Qazaaq 11:36, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Template is done: Template:Setting. The header of the table changes to the page name.
--Qazaaq 12:46, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't we put the description of a setting before its default value? The description seems to be the more important bit of information after all =)
--SnakeChomp 17:24, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that using a category page as the main resource to find the game settings is a good idea, as it groups them by name and not by their meaning. Considering settings only start with one of 3 letters, that won't provide useful organization. Is it worth even bothering having a "Settings" category? Tagging settings pages with that category will add them to the settings page but that alone won't help people find the information about the setting. I'll add the settings from the category page onto the settings page for now.
--SnakeChomp 17:09, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Agreed that the Category is a bad idea, as below. I definitely think the first letter should not be capitalized - in fact, since this is a newer version of MediaWiki, we can even do something about the pages' titles to reflect that. The template is a great idea, much agreed there.
DragoonWraith · talk · 17:50, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Oh, I also agree that description should come before default value.
DragoonWraith · talk · 17:50, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
I was thinking that would be troublesome with very long settings pages. But it's easily changed in the template. Just reverse the table rows if you think that's not a problem.
Oh, and cool trick with the pagetitles.
--Qazaaq 19:16, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Already ahead of you on that one: I created {{SettingGroup}} for that very purpose. It's still kind of long, but not terribly and the consistency is worth it, IMO.
DragoonWraith · talk · 19:37, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
It sure is, very nice.
--Qazaaq 19:42, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


I thought we were going to avoid the "categories-as-articles" thing. Most Wikis do not do this, and for good reason - it confuses users (why, I do not know, I just know from the CS wiki that it does). Use manually-created pages with lists of links, and use the {{Bc}} tag to link back to the pages that they came from.
DragoonWraith · talk · 20:31, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I think it would help to know specifically which ones are high priority to be fixed in this way.
--Quetzilla 21:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
In general I agree, but the wording makes it unclear - which ones exactly are you referring to? There are some article-categories if you dig around (i.e., Packages), but none that fit the bill that "we" have added so far.
--Haama 23:25, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Uh... I saw Category:Modding Practices, and presumed it was akin to CSwiki's Category:About Modding Etiquette, but I didn't actually look at it.
Anyway, sorry if for the confusion. That comment was made much too hastily. I should have checked that.
DragoonWraith · talk · 17:54, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Tutorials category

Currently all Bethesda's tutorials are in the Solutions category and the Wiki tutorials in the Tutorials category. Tutorials are not solutions, and clogging up the Solutions category with tutorials is not a good idea.
--Qazaaq 11:12, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Should we add the wiki/editing tutorials to the Category:Administrative_Categories or a "Wiki Category" (Editing would be too close to Edit)?
--Haama 04:52, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

New Solutions Article

I just wrote up an article for a really nifty trick I discovered (and probably others have also). I added it to the Solutions category, but it made me think: Do we want some kind of central page for new content articles to go under? Right now it's hard to find my new article unless you're actually looking for it, and in the case of the article it's really something useful to know ahead of time.
--Quetzilla 01:48, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

We could (probably?) make a "What's New" section on the Main Page, as on the CS wiki. Also, I think it would go best under a "Modding Practices" category - let me see if there's one like that already and if not I'll create it.
This is close enough to the topic that I'll mention it here - To prevent sprawl, I think we should use either the Solutions or Tips and Tricks category, but not both. This problem was rather horrendous on the CS wiki - the answer to a question could have been in one of several places: the Question category, the Answers category, the Solutions category, the Useful Code category, etc.
--Haama 03:30, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Likewise, the Tutorials category should be renamed - the tutorials are strictly related to wiki editing. If they were related to modding, then I'd say merge it with Solutions or Tips and Tricks.
--Haama 03:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't know, they seem like relatively different categories. 1 is to solve problematic situations you would normally encounter, 2 is for neat things you can do that you wouldn't otherwise have thought of. Either way, they both need to feature more prominently on the main page if anyone is going to find them.
--Quetzilla 03:41, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Heh - those two were never separate for me. Almost everything I've done required a trick or OBSE. Interested to see others' thoughts. Somewhat random - it might end up that Tips and Tricks becomes a subsection of Solutions.
Anyway, seems like I can't edit the Main Page. That may change (need to check my User Status), but for now remember that Solutions is on the Main Page (... at the very bottom). I've created a Modding Practices page and added your article to it.
--Haama 04:08, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I like the distinction between Solutions and Tips and Tricks. On the CS Wiki the solution category was filled with articles, which made it hard to find what you're looking for. Taking all tricks out of the solutions category should help.
--Qazaaq 11:05, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for going on a structure-creating rampage, I should've checked here first. I do think Tips and Tricks deserves to be a separate category to Solutions, for the same reasons as Quetzilla- Solutions seem like they should be mini-tutorials as opposed to Tips which should be compact and used to show possibilities.Talkie Toaster 14:20, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

In general, no need to check here first. If I/we/anyone thinks there's an issue it will be brought up - Tips got my attention because someone created an article with the same name that day, and because all of the articles in it were also placed in the Solutions category. That's enough call to keep them separated, so Tips stays.

Thinking about it some more, though - articles should be in one category or the other (distinction), and to make it easier to find we make Tips a sub-category of the Solutions category (the articles won't show up in Solutions).
--Haama 15:07, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Mod Tools

I've created a Mod Tools category to be able to easily point people towards commonly used programs like FOMM and F3Edit. As new tools come out, let's make sure to add pages for them here. Also, I'd like to link to it from somewhere sensible, main page maybe, but I wasn't sure where to stick the link. If anyone can think of a good place, feel free to stick it in.
--Quetzilla 01:23, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The category has been added to Category:Solutions and the Main Page.
--Haama 04:48, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

BSA Problems

There are some problems that the users may experience with the software such as missing or unfindable models. While somee people know how to extract them, some do not, and bits of useful general information like this should be available for those new to modding. Iron Angel 01:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean the .bsa files? In general, your best bet is to ask about this on the forums and then update the appropriate page(s) with the answer.
The Community Portal itself is more meant for proposals of an issue to tackle, then a place to find answers.
--Haama 03:46, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I think his point was that it will be common for people to look for the 'missing' files and get confused, yet the wiki here doesn't say anything about how to get access to the files. Probably goes under 'Solutions' :P.
--Quetzilla 04:12, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
A tip in one or more of the starting tutorials is probably the best solution to this.
--Qazaaq 11:17, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
I've written up a page on BSA Files that explains the solution to this problem as well as general usage. I've linked to it from the Data Files page, but there are probably other places that should link to it.
--Quetzilla 22:15, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


The recent page Tips And Tricks (note page, not category) reminded me of the Tidbits category from the CS wiki. That category served as a "staging" area to move information from the threads to the wiki, or at least point to interesting threads and posts in the hopes someone had enough time to wiki-ify it. Should we bring that back?
--Haama 03:58, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea, although, I'm afraid that adding a Tidbits category will make people lazy.
--Qazaaq 11:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
We already have two pages that are thread-based and thread-like: Category:FAQ and Tips And Tricks. Both contain information that would be nice to have on the wiki, but the editors have only added them to their own page.
So, I'm putting up the Tidbits page. Guess I'll link to it from the Main Page? Also, I'm going to redirect Tips And Tricks to it (we already have a Category:Tips and Tricks. Category:FAQ would be nice to have (although it might need to be turned into a page) so I'm leaving it around.
--Haama 04:46, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Agreed on making FAQ a page. I don't understand the difference between Tidbits and Tips and Tricks.
--Quetzilla 04:48, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Tidbits would be a staging area for the wiki - information that isn't provided in wiki form, or even links to external, interesting information. See the CS wiki's Tidbits for what I mean. The Tips And Tricks page falls under this category - as of now, it's all quotes, some unclear and unverified, and too small for a single page. On the other hand, the Category:Tips and Tricks has pages that are ready for the wiki and pretty much in final form.
There might also be a bit of confusion on my part, as I don't quite see the separation between Solutions, Tips and Tricks and Tutorials. I understand there is a difference between what the articles themselves will be and how they'll read, length, etc. However, I can't imagine someone would decide where to look based on what the article will be. Note, though, that I personally don't differentiate between them - an answer to my question is an answer to my question, and if anyone's seen my work they'll know I don't mind long answers :P
--Haama 05:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps we need an umbrella page (portal?) specifically for 'Guide-like' articles? Because, Solutions, FAQ, Tips, Practices, Tidbits, etc, all fall under the general category of Guide-like info. So we could set up a 'Modding Guide' portal, which would be where people go to look for answers. That page then redirects them to the subcats depending on whether they're looking for solutions to problems or tips on certain subjects, etc.
Now I know that in one sense the wiki itself is 'Guide-like' portal, but a majority of the content is in the form of 'this is the stuff that the editor lets you change', whereas the 'Modding Guide' portal would be 'this is how you change the stuff that can be changed to make it do what you want'. Basically we'd be dividing the wiki into 'Reference' and 'Guide' sections, and then they would link between. It's already mostly divided in content, it would just be a matter of directing people to the right 'central hubs' to find the kind of information they need.
Personally I look at Reference info because I can generally figure out how to do what I want, but (judging from the GECK forum) it could be handy to just tell those people, 'go here', and they can find out how to do what they want to do.
--Quetzilla 05:19, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
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